CC shuts off when wipers on?

[Buzz]

My CC shuts off when the windshield wipers are on. I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing this.

The CC is functioning perfectly otherwise.

If the CC is on and I engage the wipers it shuts off. At first I thought I was hitting the button by accident so I tried a few more times. Then I put on the delay wipers, waited for them to cycle, engaged the CC and it worked, until the next wiper cycle.

I'm just wondering if this is a "safety" feature to stop you from using CC in wet conditions. There is no mention of it in the manual but it shuts off so perfectly it doesn't appear to me as a malfunction.

Cheers
Marco

2008 Pure
Coupe "Glass" Roof
Ontario Canada
No Idea If I have The Rain Sensor but my wipers don't appear to do anything automatically.

[admin]

Yeah... let's go with that    Safety feature.  I like that.

No, it looks like it is an issue.

The strange thing here is that nobody reported this issue AT ALL until last week.  Is it really possible that since September nobody had tried using their cruise and wipers at the same time until just last week? Since then, Steve and I have received either 4 or 5 reports and we've been testing to try and figure out what it could be.

Theory #1:  Proximity of the cruise wire and the wiper wire means electromagnetic interference from the wiper being turned on is being picked up by the cruise wire and toggling the cruise.  This at first seemed like the most likely scenario since it wasn't affecting everyone.  The main problem with this theory is a) we haven't been able to reproduce it no matter how hard we try and b) people are only stating the cruise is turning off. If it were EMI causing a toggling, then the cruise would also be randomly turning on when working the wipers.

Theory #2:  As you mentioned, could it just be that these people are pressing the button when engaging the wipers?  Everyone that has complained has assured us this is not the case and we'd still run into problem "b" above.

Theory #3:  Something is different between those people experiencing the problem and the cars we used during development and testing.  The two cars we used during development did NOT have the rain sensing wipers installed.  So the leading theory right now is that the rain sensor taps into the traction control system for some reason and turning on the wipers causes some "activity" on the traction control data stream.  Our cruise control is designed to look for ANY activity on the TC data stream and to immediately shut off the cruise control.  So, in a round-a-bout way... if this is correct then yes, it is a safety feature.  Albeit one that needs to be fixed.

In general, it is accepted advice that cruise control should not be used in wet conditions (it is illegal in some jurisdictions). But there was no DOT regulation forcing us to include this "feature" and it wasn't our intention so this is being looked at as a programming bug if theory #3 turns out to be the case.

If it is theory #1, which still hasn't been ruled out completely, then the solution is to shield, or insulate, the cable from the EMI - this can be done by wrapping it in foil.


As Marco posted... if anyone else is experiencing this problem then please post with the following information:

Car year (2008, 2009)
Trim level (pure, passion)
Model (coupe/hard top, cabrio/convertible)
Location (US, Canada)
Do you have the rain sensor installed (yes, no)

[Horseman]

I have a 2008 Cabrio with rain sensing wipers, and in the 20,000 miles of using the cruise, it has never, EVER shut off (or turned on) in unison with the wipers engaging. Not one single time (and I would have noticed, believe me!). The CC occasionally disengages after going over a jarring bump, but that's the only time, and there have been many many opportunities for the cruise to disengage because of the wipers.

I have a US model with the comfort package (power steering, heated leather seats, etc), but no fog lamps, security system, or tach/clock.

[admin]

Thanks.  That is bitter-sweet news.  I was hoping the rain sensor was the common thread.  So much for that theory then.

I guess we're back to proximity then. I'm still baffled that we never heard ANY complaints like this until last week and then suddenly a rash of them all at once.

An outsider may think it could be a "batch" issue, but we've only had two batches.  The first 200 were made, then the remaining units which are still being sold.  So its not that.  Installer error has pretty much been ruled out as well since one of the complaints was from a customer that Steve personally installed for.

Please continue to post people!  With enough information perhaps we'll see a pattern.

Art

[mvaldes]

Mine was from the first batch.  No problems in either auto wiper or manual mode ('08 Passion coupe, US.)

[Buzz]

I'm just glad to hear it not just me. I was really begining to think I was completely technological incompetent.

The cc still works great and I can live with the wiper thing...but would be nice to be able to use cc in the rain.

Marco

[Horseman]

How about just exchanging the unit? See if the problem goes away?

[smartpark]

I JUST INSTALLED MY CRISE CONTROL AND I'M HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM, I HAVE A 2008 PASSION WITH EVERY THING ALSO THE RAIN SENSOR, EVERYTIME I TURN ON THE WIPERS THE CC TURNS OFF. THE ONLY TIME IT STAYES ON IS WHEN I TURN ON THE REAR WIPER. OTHERWISE IT IS GREAT.

[admin]

How about just exchanging the unit? See if the problem goes away?

We'll gladly exchange someone's unit that is experiencing this problem, but it is very unlikely it is the specific unit.  There is something common with the cars having this issue.

If it is somehow a problem that was recently introduced, for example by an inadvertent programming change (I'm certain there weren't any changes) then replacing the unit wouldn't help anyway.  Actually, what is more likely to rule that in or out is if we did an exchange with someone we know IS NOT having the problem.  If the problem is introduced, then it is our newest units.  If not, then back to the think box.  One of our test cars still has the original unit installed and it is not having the problem.  We'll install a brand new unit in there and see if it introduces the problem.  Thanks for the suggestion.

[admin]

I performed a few tests to rule out the possibility that it is a recent problem introduced with programming.  I put a brand newly programmed unit into our test car and repeated all the tests previously performed and still could not reproduce this window wiper issue that has strangely and suddenly cropped up.

I need a volunteer from someone experiencing this problem that can carefully follow these directions:

SmartieParts will mail a new switch to you so that you don't have to mess with your existing install.  When it arrives, access your Cruise Control unit and unplug the existing switch (the tiny white plug) and plug in the new switch.  Simply pass the switch from the rear area up to the front and leave it resting on your passenger seat for now.  Find a remote location with no traffic and long straight roads (ie. be safe) and hold the switch in your right hand, get up to speed and set the cruise control by pressing the switch button.  When you've confirmed the cruise is working, engage the wipers and see if it still turns the cruise off.  If the cruise does not shut off, then we would have confirmed the proximity theory (theory #1 in an earlier post).  If the cruise does shut off then we need further testing.




Assuming everyone is providing accurate and truthful information, then we can say it doesn't matter if you car is a Pure or a Passion, it isn't a problem introduced with the '09 model, it doesn't matter if the car is Canadian or American and it doesn't matter if you have the rain sensor or not.  We've now ruled out a "batch" problem as well.  Theory #1 is looking more and more like the culprit, but I really don't want to believe this for the questions stated earlier:  why now and not months ago?  why isn't it turning the cruise on as well as off (I'm thankful its not, but it doesn't make sense)?   

Art

[100mpg]

Have any of the affected cars had ECU updates, or any warranty issues related to their transmission shifting addressed?

[RLG]

There are several signals which turn the CC off.
1) the brake,
2) the handbrake,
3) the CC button (BUT IT ALSO TURNS THE SYSTEM ON)
4) The Winshield wipers (in some installations)

So  Has a miss wiring occurred??

The Windshield wiper signal is being seen as a brake signal

Was there a wiring error? or a frayed wire? or ??

[admin]

Before we go down this track...

It is extremely unlikely it is a wiring problem.  A wiring issue would manifest itself in a problem, but the odds of it being this problem are lower than winning a lottery a few times in a row.

The cruise is programmed to shut off in certain instances based on signals it receives from the car.  Those "signals" are not simple electrical feeds such as detecting a brake switch being activated, for example.  They are a relatively advanced network communication protocol that almost every system in the car uses.  So when you press the brakes, the cruise is not detecting that the brakes were pressed... but instead the cruise is listening for the car to tell it the brakes have been pressed.  This is what makes the "miswire" theory very unlikely.  An electrical miswire is more likely to tell our cruise something like, "WEOIWEHSDALFK#*@#$LC*#$" (some random garbage) and not "brakes have been pressed" (an exact signal the cruise is waiting for).

Most of the programmed signals are very specific.  The only one that is remotely vague is the traction control "data stream" because it was very difficult to figure out what exactly the car is saying when the traction system is engages.  We noticed when driving normally, it said nothing at all so we just programmed the cruise for it to listen to anything the traction system might say, and shut the cruise down.  This was why I theorized that perhaps the rain sensing wiper system might be "talking" to the traction system on the same data stream, and our cruise "hears" that and shuts down.  That theory has since been ruled out because above someone reported not having the rain sensor and having the problem, and conversely someone with the rain sensor did not have the problem.

There may or may not be a signal "spoken" when the wipers are turned on, but if there is... it isn't happening on a data stream the cruise is listening to so it really isn't relevant.

That is what makes the leading theory the wire proximity problem.  Electrical interference from the wiper arm is sending a signal (in this case, "signal" is just a basic electrical pulse and nothing computerized) down the cruise switch cable and toggling the cruise off in the most basic of ways.  Effectively, it is the same as pressing the button to manually turn the cruise off.

I still need a volunteer who is experiencing the problem and can follow the instructions in my previous post.  This will help us rule in or out this theory and we can move on.

Art

[jsenka]

FYI.
I recently purchased and installed in my 2008 Passion. I purchased from Steven at Smartieparts early February.
No problem with windshield wipers kicking off the CC, with the wipers activated either manually or automatically.

[John_H]

Since the automated wipers were part of the comfort package and I never use auto headlights, has the cutoff only happened when the headlight setting is in auto?  I'll try setting my lights to auto and see if anything happens with both auto lights and wipers engaged.