2.00 Firmware Beta Testing

[admin]

Thanks for the feedback.  I don't have a lot of time right now to respond so I'll keep it in point form:

There are tradeoffs between the two versions.  I agree v.2 is slightly less smooth but I also agree that if you didn't have the two to compare that you'd probably never notice it.  The tradeoff is better response to hills that a few people complained about previously.  So I guess... if you never had v.1 would you feel there was anything wrong?

re: glitch @ 60.  I bet you were in automatic?  Likely you were simply at a gear/rpm combo where the car just didn't have the guts to go any faster, at least not with any gusto.  So either a slow acceleration as it chugs back into a good rpm or it waits for a downshift.  Next time you have that situation, press the gas pedal down a good inch or so and I think you'll probably see you can't accelerate any faster yourself.  Solution?  I'm not sure we can tune for every rpm/gear/hill/speed combination so there may not be one.  The driver can downshift.  If I'm wrong and pressing the pedal down manually does accelerate then maybe we can improve there.

re: your weird scanguage responses.  Obviously I can only test with the SG I have here.  I have no idea what minor or major version variations they have made over the years.  I was going by our 2 year old unit as well as the current online instructions.  The responses you got are messed up   On my unit it can't even display that many digits!   However, while I don't know what the extraneous numbers mean, I don't think it matters.  I think you can still take that as a "success" or "failed".  The SG isn't really DOING anything anyway.  It is simply passing a command on to the cruise.  If the cruise doesn't understand the command, then it sends one message back and if it does understand it sends a different message.  The responses you got could only be possible if the cruise understood.  Still, good to know there's differences in the SG units.

Mvaldes... 99.99% sure your wiper thing has nothing to do with the cruise.  The wiper issue before was the wiper affecting the cruise.  That, while baffling, was theoretically possible (obviously).  The other way round though... I can't see any way at all where the cruise can have any affect on your wipers.

Thanks for the testing efforts guys!  And the reports.  Keep 'em coming.

Art.

[intocoasters]

I figured that any extra numbers after the first 8 digits could be ignored since they (mostly) matched what was expected. And since the pedal maps worked I felt that the commands were getting to the cruise properly.

RE: 60MPH
I was in automatic.  But I don't think that is what was happening.  Here is why I noticed it so much - That stretch of highway has a 5MPH increase, I pass thru there alot.  It is habit for me to just accel using the button for that change in speed ... so I have done the 60 to 65 'press and hold' several times in that same spot since I have been driving with the cruise (ver.1).  I also did the same 20MPH to 65MPH test with the version 1 and the acceleration was fairly consistent throughout the range although not as quick as the version 2.   I will do more testing around the 60 MPH range.

[admin]

Its interesting.  When you do that test again, as soon as you notice you're not getting any acceleration, pop the shifter from D into manual and note what gear it is in and, if you can, what the RPM is.  And humor me and press the accelerator pedal to see if you're able to manually accelerate readily without downshifting.

The acceleration routine in v1 was a lot simpler.  Maybe simple is better in this case.  Some people complained it was too gutless (can't say I disagree) and I wanted to make it configurable.  The problem is that available acceleration depends greatly on what speed/gear you're at so the code became quite complex.  It is dependent on current speed, so it is somewhat possible that a given speed is problematic.  However, I just reviewed the code and I don't think so.  If you said it got worse as the speed was greater then that would make sense.  But being bad at a particular speed and better at higher and lower speeds is a bit odd.  Unless its just a matter of the car being in a really bad rpm for the gear and it just doesn't have the get up and go at that point.

If you're interested in playing with some value adjustments, decreasing ACCEL_TIMER (command: 6033XX, default XX is 19) and/or increasing ACCEL_NUDGE_BY (command: 6032XX, default XX is 1) should help.  The latter increases how much the pedal is pushed further each fraction of a second in an attempt to get to your desired acceleration rate. The former decreases the length of "fraction of a second" so that the pedal is pushed more often.  In my testing, I couldn't really notice a lot of difference when changing these, but I will admit that only a small amount of my testing time went toward the acceleration/resume routines.

Oh, and I forgot to make a comment in my last post about your report regarding TPS and RPM via the SGII.  TPS information over the SG is extremely slow and, as I confirmed months ago using more sensitive equipment, can barely be considered "real time".  You can't really get a sense of what the cruise control is doing by looking at the SG TPS data.  Its not even close.

[mvaldes]

I repeated the low speed hill tests with both units this morning and I think Steven is correct. With the new, 2.0, unit  I had a lot of surging in 1st, and much less in 2nd. In "D" the surging was a lot on 2 runs, less on one run. With the old, 1.0, unit, I had a little (noticeable, but not as much as with 2.0) in one of the three runs in "D." It did surge in all 3 runs in 1st, but not nearly as much as the 2.0 version. In 2nd, no noticeable surging in any of the 3 runs.

Forget the wiper thing, I found the same thing happened with the old unit today. I must not have noticed it before and only did with the new unit since I was paying attention to what was going on and not just driving.

If the interstates are any clearer today, I'll try the higher speed cruise settings on the way to the office. I'll also try out the acceleration thing around 60 mph to see if I get the same results with this unit with my car.

At the cruise settings I've used on relatively level ground (between 30 and 55 mph) I do agree with Intocoasters that you're more aware of the unit making corrections. I wasn't sure if I was imagining it since I haven't tried it again with the 1.0 unit. I think I'm more attuned to it because of the testing, but it is noticeable in comparison to the cc on our Mini and the one on the Honda. (Of course they have much more horse power at their disposal, so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.)

I also got the long string of "extra" digits on my scangauge. But, since Art had said that the models may differ, I didn't pay any attention to it. Probably should have mentioned it though.

[admin]

Thanks.  It is interesting the reports that you're noticing more correction activity.  I had actually convinced myself it was improved in that regard in most speeds/situations.  I'll see if I can make it better.

[wdhitch]

Finally got a chance to get the car away from the wife today.... 75 mile round trip commute over mostly flat roads. I too tested the <30mph and noticed the bucking problem. I also noticed it at hwy speeds... although I agree that had I not had ver1 I wouldn't have noticed it... very slight up and down. Speeding up seemed normal to me... though it's not a function I use often.

I got the same long scanguage responses that intercoasters did... though I just chalked it up to and extended version of what I was looking for.

The resume after off element worked as advertised.

[mvaldes]

I tried duplicating intocoasters "glitch" experience with interesting results. On the way in to the office this afternoon, I set the cc at 50 - 55 and accelerated to 65 -67 about 6-8 times. Twice it seemed to "hang" at 60 and slowly accelerate up to 65, the remainder of the time it worked normally (meaning a constant acceleration from around 55 to 65.) I tried it going uphill, going downhill and on flat stretches. interestingly, both times when it was uneven in acceleration were on flat stretches. (I was in "D" and when it misbehaved. As suggested, I bumped the stick into manual and found I was in 5th .) Coming home, there was less traffic so I was able to try it more often, probably about 12- 15 times. This time it "hung" at 60 nearly on about 90% of the tests - uphill, downhill and flats. On one gentle uphill, it Hung at 60 and didn't want to go any faster. The LED in the dash was flashing, I was in "D"  and it had been sitting there at 60 for several seconds so I tried the accelerator pedal and it smoothly accelerated up to 67 at which point I set the cruise for that speed (pushed it off then hit the button to set it.) Weird.
Other than that, my overall impression for my first time using it at >55mph was that the cruise still seemed to be correcting more than the original version, meaning that it felt like it was going up and down in speed ever so slightly, but enough to be noticeable, and was not as smooth as the first version. Over 70 mph this seemed to disappear and it felt the same (smooth) as the old unit.

[admin]

so I tried the accelerator pedal and it smoothly accelerated up to 67

Ok, that pretty well confirms that there is something in the code if you can accelerate with the pedal.  It occured to me that 60mph is very close to 100kph (100kph = 62.17mph).  100 is a very convenient number.  The car thinks in kph internally.  So I wonder if somewhere in the math I have something like 100/100 or something simple like that.

(before someone says, "no - it was exactly 60, not 62" I'll note that the internal speed registers do not exactly reflect what your speedo says)


Thanks for all the work guys!  I'm sure with your reports I can get it just as smooth and fix this weird 60 thing.

Art

[intocoasters]

.... TPS information over the SG is extremely slow and, as I confirmed months ago using more sensitive equipment, can barely be considered "real time".  You can't really get a sense of what the cruise control is doing by looking at the SG TPS data.  Its not even close.

I kinda figured that would be the case just from trying to watch the RPMs.  How do you feel about the Scangauge's reading for MPH? 

I have not had a chance to get the car back on the highway yet. I was going to record the <somewhat> exact speed this occurred by noting the  speedometer, GPS reading and SG.   Also, I think my speedo reads about 3 MPH faster than I am actually going.... but that is just based off the GPS.  I have no idea how accurate a GPS is in regards to speed.

I will also do the same test in manual a couple of times.

As far as feeling the speed corrections... I did not mean that in a negative way, I was trying to notice as many differences between the 2 versions as I could.... I am sure that if I were reviewing the Ver.2  without any experience of the 1st version I would not have thought to even mention the highway behavior.

[jwight]

So, we go on vacation and come back to find a new area451 CC in the works!!  Can't leave you guys alone for a minute.

Looking forward to v2.0, but no ScanGuage here so please make the "button" changes so obvious and easy even a liberal arts grad can do them.  Are we  getting e-mails when it's time to exchange the units?

Thanks!

[admin]

Are we  getting e-mails when it's time to exchange the units?

I think we'll suggest retailers contact their customers regarding updating, when the time comes.  We may also send emails from here, but I've never tested the forum's mass mailing capability so not sure how well that works.

[jwight]

OK, I assume Steven at SmartieParts will be contacting his customers. 

[wizard of ahs]

OK, I assume Steven at SmartieParts will be contacting his customers. 

I certainly hope so 

If not, I'll contact him !!!   He's really great, I'm sure he will contact us some kind of way   

[SmartieParts]

Shucks, thanks!

Of course I'll be sending out emails!  But not until after beta testing and only if it is determined that v2 is a go-ahead.  From some of the feedback, it looks like there's work to be done.

Odd though.  At speeds over 50kph, which is only around 30MPH, I can't feel any hunting/surging/bucking/correcting at all.   Am I just not as sensitive?  Or is it because I live in the mountains so I'm rarely on flat road?  I can't even think of where a flat road exists within 200k of here   Not a long one anyway.

 - Steven

[mvaldes]

Steve,

I'm a member of your fan club too, but I have to say that the only time I don't feel the surging/bucking is over 70mph (about 118 kph.)

A word of caution too to the other beta testers. I knew this was possible, but still was surprised when it happened. After using the cc at a highway setting, I exited and went to set the cc for the lower local road speed. I must have held the button down a little too long and the cc thought I meant "resume" instead of "set" so it took off to get me back up to interstate speed. Good thing I didn't have it set on the BOOH pedal setting! 

Actually, that raises a question. Does changing the pedal map have any effect on the rate of acceleration of the cruise when you hit "resume" or "accelerate?"
-Michael